Will Territorial Taxation Solve All the Problems of #AmericansAbroad?


Tomorrow’s the big day! Will there be something for us in tomorrow’s Ways & Means Committee bill? Lots of hints suggest something is there. Most seem to expect a shift to territorial taxation for individuals. That’s a great start! There are still likely to be lots of issues remaining and this comment from the Isaac Brock Society lays it out.

This is not meant to be negative in any way. However, to expect that suddenly ALL of our issues will simply disappear is extremely unlikely. Better to have a reasonable expectation to offset disappointment! But, who knows? Tomorrow will tell….

USCitizenAbroad says
November 1, 2017 at 9:26 am

Fred (B)

I’m sorry, but anything that truly makes life easier for US persons abroad is fine by me. I have been skeptical of TTFI, and dream of true simple RBT. But frankly, at this point, if the US says what you do abroad stays abroad, I’ll take it.

I wonder if TTFI would do away with FBARs. After all, if they don’t need to look at your income abroad, they don’t need to look at your accounts abroad. Well, I know that’s not true — they want to make sure people aren’t spiriting funds abroad to hide them there.

Fred (IMHO) they will NEVER get rid of FBAR. The FBAR statute in its purest form requires any person who enters the USA on business to report his/her foreign bank accounts. The original purpose of FBAR was not primarily about taxation. Treasury has considered getting rid of FBAR for Americans abroad and declined to do so. Recent events make it clear that FBAR is an effective tool of intimidation … Mr. FBAR embodies what it means to be an American.

A move to “territorial taxation” (what income is subject to U.S. taxation) has nothing to do with (1) the definition of “tax resident” (what persons are subject to the U.S. tax system) and (2) the FBAR requirements found in Title 31.

It follows from this that a move to “territorial taxation” (absent further legislative change) would in no way affect:

– FBAR rules
– the FATCA IGAs (which are based on the U.S. definition of “tax resident”)
– Chapter 4 of the IRC (Sections 1471 – 1474 which are FATCA)
– the requirement to file a tax return and other information returns
– the draconian “Exit Tax” rules
– gift tax rules
– estate tax rules (unless the estate tax is abolished)

and much more.

ONLY a move to RBT can affect the above …

Of course a move to “territorial taxation” is helpful to Americans abroad. But, (without additional changes) it is only a beginning.

What a move to “territorial taxation” would probably achieve is, that foreign source income would not be subject to U.S. taxation. I would think (but wouldn’t count on) that territorial taxation would lead to the elimination of certain information return requirements: 8938 and 8621 (which have already been eliminated for Green Card holders who make a treaty election).

But, these are just some thoughts. Who knows what the final product will look like? It’s possible to move to “territorial taxation” for individuals and retain A LOT of the pain for Americans abroad. On the other hand, a lot of the pain could be removed.

Neither RO nor ACA has proposed the elimination of CBT. The RO proposal makes CBT more tolerable for Americans abroad. The ACA proposal reinforces CBT, but allows a “buy out” for specified individuals (and is ultimately better for those who can take advantage of it).

DA has yet to make a specific proposal. But, in the DA worldview, CBT is essential to ensure that a small group of people don’t escape paying their “fair share”. For this reason, DA does NOT really support RBT – time for the loyal Democrats to stop drinking the “Kool Aid”.

The ONLY proposals for RBT are found in the some of the individual submissions to House Ways and Means (2013) and Senate Finance (2015).

But on the other hand: We don’t know what the proposed legislation will look like. It could incorporate various suggestions from various proposals and could actually be RBT. But, given the fact that there has been no organized support of RBT, I think this is unlikely.

I read somewhere (or did I just dream it) that:

“All roads lead to renunciation!”

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