February 12, 2018
Marco Sewald sent the following information concerning ING Belgium & ING DiBa Germany
ING België NV / ING Belgique SA. (2017)
FATCA – Frequently Asked Questions. ING U.S. Corner.
Isn’t ING Belgium being stricter than other banks when applying FATCA?
U.S. Citizens are and remain welcome in ING for accounts and savings as long as they are willing to
comply with ING’s request for FATCA documentation. Customers identified as Specified U.S. Persons
and Non-documented Customers will be reported to the IRS as from 2015.
Does ING have any plans to stop accepting private U.S. customers, due to FATCA?
U.S. Persons are and remain welcome in ING for accounts and savings as long as they are willing to
comply with the FATCA obligations. However, ING will not open new financial accounts for
Undocumented U.S. Persons.
Given the existence of certain American regulations likely to have an extra-territorial scope, ING no longer accepts to perform transactions on financial instruments nor to provide services to open a securities account:
- on someone’s behalf and for natural persons with American nationality and/or having a legal, fiscal or postal address in the United States States or a telephone number in the United States, or a permanent US resident card (“Green Card”);
- on which a proxy has been given to a person with American nationality and/or having a legal, fiscal or postal address in the United States or a telephone number in the United States, or a permanent US resident card (“Green Card”).
In the event of such service was provided nonetheless and in which the financial instruments were acquired and deposited on a securities account, ING would maintain the right, after having notified the client at least 60 calendar days in advance, to allow him/her the possibility to transfer such financial instruments to another financial institution, to sell the relevant securities at their market value and to close such securities account.
Wesentliche Informationen zum Direkt-Depot
Die ING-DiBa führt Direkt-Depots nicht für Personen mit US-Bezug.
The ING-DiBa does not maintain direct deposits for US-related persons
Marco Sewald says: Article 1 states: no investment accounts for any US persons – details are mentioned later in the text.
February 10, 2018
Refused an account which earns interest
Abigail Paul posts:
I tried to get a simple bit of interest for my savings account in Germany, but as I was closing out the form it asked me if I was born in the US, or if I was a US citizen, and as soon as I clicked yes the whole process shut down. I can’t even get a little interest on my savings, which should be a really uncontroversial asset. But Americans are such a pain for banks to deal with, they don’t even want to sell us that kind of simple product. And everything I go through with complications due to my US citizenship, I can’t say I don’t understand it. Here is the link to the service I was denied, for your reference. https://www.deutsche-bank.de/pk/sparen/zinsmarkt.html
ING Direct Online Bank Refuses to Open an Account
Gina Hunt posts
“My notice from ING Direct online bank that they won’t open an account for me bc I’m American.”
Gina provides a translation:
“In reviewing your personal information, it seems that there is an indication that you are American and because of that we are not currently able to open an online account for you.”
Actually, they closed their branches here, so it’s all online. Perhaps I could call them & have an account opened, but I know that the online banks have to keep their costs low to keep their fees low, and the cost of banking Americans is higher. Fortuneo, another 100% online bank, refused me as well. I didn’t try to call them either.
Online brokerage firm Bonk.fr refuses U.S. Persons
Benjamin Levine says
Page 5 of the Conditions Générales of the online brokerage firm Bink.fr still explicitly refuse US persons :
L’offre de Binck.fr est, à la date des présentes Conditions
Générales, limitée aux résidents fiscaux en France qui ne sont
pas « US person » au regard de la réglementation américaine
FATCA (Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act). Binck.fr se réserve
le droit de ne pas ouvrir de Comptes aux personnes non
résidentes en France.
Au titre de la réglementation américaine, les indices
• qui confèrent obligatoirement le statut de « US person » :
détenir la nationalité américaine ou être détenteur d’une green
card ou avoir sa résidence fiscale aux États‑Unis.
• qui ne confèrent pas obligatoirement le statut de
« US person » : lieu de naissance aux États‑Unis, adresse de
domicile actuelle ou adresse de correspondance ou adresse de
domiciliation du courrier aux États‑Unis, numéro de téléphone
aux États‑Unis, procuration donnée à une personne dont
l’adresse est localisée aux États‑Unis, instruction permanente
de transfert de fonds vers ou depuis les États‑Unis.
Le Client qui déclare dans le formulaire d’ouverture de compte ne
pas avoir le statut de « US person » mais qui présente néanmoins
un indice d’américanité qui ne confère pas obligatoirement le
statut de « US person » (voir ci‑dessus), devra joindre un W8
BEN dûment complété et signé (valide 3 ans) ainsi qu’une copie
d’une pièce d’identité non‑américaine. En l’absence de l’un de
ces documents, Binck.fr sera dans l’obligation de communiquer
les informations telles que définies par la réglementation FATCA
à l’Internal Revenue Service (I.R.S.). En cas de lieu de naissance
aux États‑Unis, le Client devra joindre également un courrier
écrit expliquant sa renonciation à la citoyenneté américaine ou
une attestation de perte de la citoyenneté américaine (Form
Le Client s’engage à adresser sur demande de Binck.fr, tout
autre document, formulaire ou information qui lui serait
nécessaire pour remplir ses obligations dans le cadre des
réglementations américaines. De même, le Client s’engage
à informer immédiatement Binck.fr de tout changement de
sa situation telle qu’indiqué dans le formulaire d’ouverture
de compte et à lui communiquer les documents, formulaires
et informations adaptés à sa nouvelle situation. Dans le
cas contraire, Binck.fr pourrait être tenue, au regard des
informations dont elle dispose, d’appliquer le statut de « US
person » au Client concerné avec toutes les conséquences,
notamment fiscales, liées à ce statut.
Si un client devient « US Person » au sens de la réglementation
américaine, Binck.fr sera dans l’obligation de clôturer tous les
comptes du Client.
Si le client « US Person » n’a pas communiqué à Binck.fr ses
instructions pour le transfert de ses avoirs dans les délais
impartis, le Compte fermé non transféré sera débité des
droits de garde conformément aux Tarifs. Le Client qui devient
résident fiscal à l’étranger pourra toutefois résilier sans frais la
The Binck.fr offer is, as of the date of these Conditions
General, limited to tax residents in France who are not
not “US person” under US regulations
FATCA (Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act). Binck.com
the right not to open Accounts to non
resident in France.
Under the US regulations, the indices
• which necessarily confer the status of “US person”:
hold US citizenship or hold a green
card or have his tax residence in the United States.
• which do not necessarily confer the status of
“US person”: place of birth in the United States, address of
current domicile or correspondence address or address of
mail domiciliation in the United States, phone number
in the United States, power of attorney given to a person
the address is located in the United States, permanent instruction
fund transfer to or from the United States.
The Client who declares in the account opening form does not
not have the status of “US person” but which nonetheless presents
an index of Americanity that does not necessarily confer the
status of “US person” (see above), will need to attach a W8
BEN duly completed and signed (valid for 3 years) and a copy
a non-US ID. In the absence of one of
these documents, Binck.fr will be obliged to communicate
information as defined by FATCA regulations
to the Internal Revenue Service (I.R.S.). In case of place of birth
In the United States, the Customer will also have to send an e-mail
writing explaining his renunciation of American citizenship or
a certificate of loss of US citizenship
(Form(NB this should read DS-4083 I-407 would apply only to greencard holders who gave up US status)
The Customer agrees to address on request Binck.fr, all
other document, form or information that would be
necessary to fulfill its obligations under the
US regulations. Likewise, the Customer agrees
to immediately inform Binck.fr of any change in
its situation as indicated in the opening form
account and to communicate to him the documents, forms
and information adapted to his new situation. In the
otherwise, Binck.fr could be held, with regard to
information available to it, to apply the status of “US
person to the relevant Customer with all the consequences,
particularly tax related to this status.
If a customer becomes a “US Person” within the meaning of the regulations
American, Binck.fr will be obliged to close all
If the customer “US Person” has not communicated to Binck.fr his
instructions for the transfer of assets on time
the non-transferred closed account will be debited
custody fees in accordance with the Tariffs. The customer who becomes
tax resident abroad may, however, terminate the
UBS will only allow no-interest checking/savings; Stateside bank USAA closes account due to foreign residence
Anne Durio Fitzpatrick says
Tricia, we’ve been unable to get anything in writing from UBS. But we cannot invest, are only allowed basic accounts (savings/checking) where no interest is earned. We do have a letter, if that would count, where our son was kicked out of his stateside bank, USAA, because he resides overseas. Not only can he not hold any account there, he cannot hold more than a savings/checking account here. Double whammy!
Citibank in Honk Kong will allow nothing more than a checking account
Francis Hasek posts :
I had an issue with Citibank in Hong Kong not letting me open anything beyond a checking account
Various Major Banks in Switzerland do not accept U.S. Citizens
Mike Dickinson, Danielle Brown and
Greg Swanson report from Switzerland:
UBS does not offer investment accounts nor other accounts
Credit Suisse does not offer accounts
No American banks except Citibank (very high balance needed)
NB-minimum individual account balance is $1,000,000 USD
ING in Belgium also refuses to accept U.S. citizens
Italian bank closes account
Vannesa Idalia Fernandez says:
Banks will never write it down that they refuse you for being American. Banks in Italy won’t and they can close any account if they want because they are mostly private banks and it says so on the contract. The only phrase you can get that says “not available for US person” is in most financial instruments but it could happen that, when it isn’t written down, and you try to buy a fund or anything the bank blocks your negotiation withuout saying why, that way you have to call them and maximum they tell you the reason on the phone but will never write it down. Guys this is frustrating. I had my bank account closed cause i was american and asked them to write it down but they said they wouldn’t and they have all the right to close it cause it says so on the contract. This is crazy.
The bank was iwbank form UBI BANK
February 9, 2018
Several people posted/tweeted that service was denied to U.S. citizens due to FATCA. On this FB post the idea of saving these as a permanent record documenting the harm of #FATCA was discussed and this page is the result of that discussion. I will be posting any/all such records from this day forward.
1) Salon des Entrepreneurs – Paris posted by Laura Snyder
Seen (+felt) this morning in Paris at Salon des Entrepreneurs: financial services company openly and expressly announcing its refusal to do business with "US persons" because of #FATCA #CBT @regisbismuth @CitizenshipTax @ExpatriationLaw @Keith__REDMOND https://t.co/06OcLvVhpT pic.twitter.com/E6RHQgFHWn
— Laura Snyder (@laurasn1000) February 8, 2018
Article 2 : Conditions préalables et déterminantes à la fourniture du service 3
2.1 Conditions concernant l’utilisateur 3
Les fondateurs doivent être résidents fiscaux français. Le service n’est pas ouvert aux US persons telles que définies par l’IRC (Internal Revenu Code) américain. Les Utilisateurs devront compléter une auto-certification à la souscription du Service afin de déterminer leur(s) lieu(x) de résidence fiscale et leur statut au regard de la réglementation américaine FATCA.
The founders must be French tax residents. The service is not open to US persons as defined by the US Internal Revenue Code (IRC). Users must complete a self-certification for the subscription of the Service in order to determine their place (s) of tax residence and their status under the US FATCA regulations.
2) Tata – India posted by Viral Shah
NB The situation experienced by Viral is said to be due to the Securities Act of the US; however, Viral resides in India not the US so it seems a bit strange (India does not allow dual citizenship-Viral’s Indian status is OCI ).
Karen Alpert says:
This is about US securities law, not FATCA. US law defines US Person differently in different places. When it comes to securities registration, actual residence is what counts. My understanding is that a US citizen living outside the US is generally not a US person under the Securities Act. Of course, many financial institutions don’t understand the difference and, to be safe, they just define US person as broadly as possible and deny accounts to anyone that might possibly be a US person
IMO, FATCA caused much of the confusion among FFIs about how “US Person” is defined. Many are now denying investments that are perfectly legal. So, if the bank/brokerage/FI is actually denying access to this investment then it’s not inaccurate to say that FATCA is to blame.
3) Bonds – India posted by Viral Shah